On Wed, 20 Oct 2004 04:57:40 GMT, Storm Rider wrote:
Unable to set followups, apparently SR uses one of the microshaft products,
or a direct clone of that stuff.
Post by Storm RiderPost by Liz[-----]
Post by Storm RiderI find it facinating that people are willing to deny the existence of a
God
Post by LizPost by Storm Riderthat has a personal stake in their lives, and I am truly fascinated at
the
Post by LizWhat denial? The lack of evidence means that there is nothing to
deny.
I'm quite willing to admit that the primary argument that God cannot be
scientifically measured is a valid one--to a point. Science is, by
definition, the observation of the natural order. God, by the testimony
given, is not a PART of the natural order, but a supernatural being.
Therefore, most expected scientific observations will not validate such an
existance.
Wrong wording. It is not will not, that would indicate that there is
something there to be validated, can not is what you meant to type.
Isn't it?
Post by Storm RiderHowever, and I'm sure I'll get shot at for this as well, since we cannot
physically measure the existence of this particular being, we must look to a
different discipline than natural science, which is primarily concerned with
present measurable and observable chriteria.
If this concept is real, then it is real everywhere. It is definable, it
has attributes. Some are claimed for this particular set of deity's, some
which indicate that it is a made up construct.
Now, with that out of the way, there is no way to test for that which does
not exist in the here & now, but a side effect of that is that the here &
now is the only thing that can physically effect us.
Emotionally, well, all bets are off.
Post by Storm RiderInstead, let us examine how History works. We are pretty certain that a
number of people have existed throughout history, and have had a major
impact upon it, but we have very little evidence of them that can be
validated through natural science. Instead, we look at the testimony of
others who claim to have witnessed these people and their effect on society
and history. Aristotle is considered by many to be one of the greatest
Not just are they written about, are those that wrote about them creditable
sources. Where xianity screws the pooch is that there is no way to
positively identify the authors making the claims on its behalf.
I doubt if the founder, one Saul of Tatusu[sp] can even be shown to be
historical.
Then there is the way the books were written, each to a different audience.
Today we call that propaganda.
Post by Storm Riderphilosiphors of ancient Greece. However, he and any witnesses of him are
long dead, buried, and forgotten. There exists no more physical evidence
that Aristotle existed at one time than exists for the Christian God (I
think the Christian God actually has more testimonial evidence surviving).
However, few people will give serious consideration to the idea that
Aristotle never existed.
If we are to truly have an open mind on whether or not God exists, and which
god is God, then we have to examine the testimonies left by those claiming
to represent the various Gods available. Are the teachings and claims about
& you need to start with the first words, compare the claims with the
evidence. Can you do that. Can you pick up a copy of the JPS & examine it &
verify that its history is as claimed, & the gods existed.
Hint, when you study the OT you find out many things they do not teach you
in Sunday school. There you get the pabulum straight & thick.
snip drifting.
Post by Storm RiderWe can start by ruling out the Greek and Roman gods, since they claim to
have lived on Mt. Olympus, and explorers and sattelite images have shown no
dwellings on this mountain. The very nature of the Greek and Roman myths
Care to try again, they, like all other gods are supernatural. It is a
characteristic shared by every god, goddess, angel, demon, or in the xian
case, devil.
Post by Storm Rideralso invalidate these gods (The biological impossibility of the Minotaur
story comes to mind). Hades has never been found by modern explorers,
It is different from the hybrid god of xianity in what way. BTW, you do
know a largeish number of human baby's that are viable are culled due to
deformity's don't you. Mayhap that was one that was not culled.
As to Hades, it's in another dimension, everyone knows that.
Everyone one that believes in it or its xian substitute that is.
Post by Storm Riderthough many tales tell of mortal men traveling there and returning. There
is also no ancient giant observable supporting the sky at the Atlas
mountains.
Invisible, see how easy it is to play the & *Name your God* game.
Post by Storm RiderThe Norse gods and the Hindu gods, I must claim ignorance on, as I have not
studied these religions in some time, nor what the gods themselves were said
to have taught and claimed as 'truth'. (Other than the Hindu belief in
reincarnation, which again is not provable by natural science).
Of course it isn't, but that is a cornerstone for any god claim.
Post by Storm RiderSo what do the remaining available candidates for God teach? Have the
teachings any of these beings testified to been proven false in any way?
Many gods don't teach anything, they simply are.
Now, why not stay in the region, thee are many gods & goddesses to choose
from,. as well as at least one king of divine virgin birth.
Post by Storm RiderAgain, I must claim a certain ignorance for many of the remaining
candidates, as I have not had opportunity to pour over Budda's writings or
the Koran. There are others that claim to have read these works, and have
made claims that many basic facts have been show false through archeology or
natural science.
No need to even go that far.
Does the god have to reveal itself to garner followers, well, that is a
weak god indeed,.
Is the god part of a pre-existing pantheon, well, that is a sad state of
affairs indeed. Can't even come up with a new god.
Does the god enjoy evil, then avoid it.
Is the god to weak to prevent evil, useless.
I could go on but I am describing the xian gods above.
Post by Storm RiderHowever, I have read much about investigations into Biblical claims. Even
before the 1611 'authorized' translation into English, the claims made by
the Bible have been under scrutiny. Practically every statement about the
natural order, man's psychology, and social consequence for behaviours has
been examined, ridiculed, hated, scorned, and campaigned against--but never
proven false.
Hum, then you have not been reading serious scholars.
From the beginning claim on it is full of of falsehoods that are known to
be false.
Science as well as history say it is a false myth.
From its theft from the Canaan population, which the proto-Jews were
members, to the Greek insertion of another dying god, it is a load of
bullshit that is well past its spread by date.
Lets make it easy on the audience.
You do realise that gods were local in nature back then don't you?
You do realise a city may have had several gods back then, & the local gods
were the ones that were worshipped. You do realise that goddesses were very
much part & parcel of the original scheme of things don't you?
Without that basic knowledge, you are not qualified to discuss the concepts
for your emotions will get in the way.
Post by Storm RiderIf you could scientifically and definitively prove just one statement made
by the God of the bible, or show one historical statement to be an outright
lie, then you would succeed in silencing Christianity permanently. The very
No, it has been done & xians keep claiming their version of gopd, 0.0.0.0.3
Beta is the one with the hairy chest, the original stud duck, etc.
Post by Storm Riderbasis of this faith is that the Bible is true from Genesis to Revelation,
and every verse, in context, supports the whole. Show one false statement
that the Bible claims is true, and Christiantiy dies. One of the core
Pigeon blood curing leprosy, dipping in the Jordan seven times cures
leprosy, spit & mud clear the sight of the blind. The list could take
several hours to type. & frankly, would be wasted on xians.
After all, they believe.
In the NT, a messiah that is not a messiah for starters.
Fail in any of the messiah requirements & from the concept as developed by
the Jews, a messiah you are not.
Among those requirements.
Be fully human.
Take Israel & make it independent from foreign rule.
Place Israel at the head of nations.
Get the entire world to confess Yahweh is in fact, the top stud in the god
race.
Usher in an era of world peace.
Now, which one of the above was accomplished?
None, fancy that.
Post by Storm Rideredicts of Christianity is that the Bible must be true for God to be trusted.
If God is shown to be a liar, then Christians believe a lie.
Then xians never read the OT. Or pay attention to the NT.
Post by Storm RiderTo this day, as far as I've heard, noone has been able to prove any
falsehood. Granted, the lack of failure does not prove success, but, for me
at least, the sheer volume of attacks that the Bible has withstood without
failure is a convincing argument as to the validity of its teachings, and
the God who claims to be its ultimate author.
IOW, it gives you the warmfies & you get to go to heaven so there.
For you, that is enough, for people that want to know, it is not even a
start.
& its not like there is not plenty of information freely available either,
there is. But xians don't read it.
snip
Post by Storm RiderWhen and if a religion is proven right based on its prophecies, it is my
hope and prayer that those honestly looking for truth will see this and
believe before they no longer have the opportunity to do so.
walksalone who has no doubt some xians are sincere, & nice people on top of
that. But then, even Attila the Hun was said to be nice to others on
occasion, when he felt like it.
--
Edible, adj.: Good to eat, and wholesome to digest, as a worm to a toad, a
toad to a snake, a snake to a pig, a pig to a man, and a man to a worm.
-Ambrose Bierce, writer (1842-1914)